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Poll: Gender presentation - the funcrunch files


Jul. 9th, 2013 10:09 pm Poll: Gender presentation

All questions are asking how you perceive me, funcrunch. i.e., "I consider funcrunch's style of dress to be generally..."

I think only registered LJ users can vote in polls. If you don't see voting checkboxes, feel free to use the comments field instead.

Please note that unlike several of my previous LJ entries on sex and gender, this one is fully public, and will be cross-posted to Facebook (though friends-only on there) to (hopefully) widen the response pool.

Poll #1923353 Gender presentation.

My style of dress is generally

Male
0(0.0%)
Female
3(25.0%)
Neutral / Androgynous
6(50.0%)
Other (explain in comments)
3(25.0%)

My mannerisms are generally

Male
0(0.0%)
Female
3(25.0%)
Neutral / Androgynous
7(58.3%)
Other (explain in comments)
2(16.7%)

My speech patterns are generally

Male
2(20.0%)
Female
3(30.0%)
Neutral / Androgynous
3(30.0%)
Other (explain in comments)
2(20.0%)

My hobbies and interests are generally

Male
1(9.1%)
Female
0(0.0%)
Neutral / Androgynous
9(81.8%)
Other (explain in comments)
1(9.1%)

How long have you known me?

Less than one year
0(0.0%)
One to five years
4(36.4%)
Five to ten years
5(45.5%)
Ten to fifteen years
1(9.1%)
More than fifteen years
1(9.1%)
Tags:

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Comments:

From:plymouth
Date:July 10th, 2013 05:51 am (UTC)
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I had to say "other" for everything because I deconstructed gender too much to understand it anymore. I mean, I hate it and I want it to die, but I no longer really even understand what it is. Amorphous awful thing.
From:funcrunch
Date:July 10th, 2013 06:06 am (UTC)
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I think I understand what other people think it is, but I totally understand your response.

I think I have known you for slightly more than five years though... ETA Actually yes, I'm sure I've known you for longer than that because I remember coming to a party at your place when I was still working at UCSF Laurel Heights, which was pre-April 2008.

Edited at 2013-07-10 06:07 am (UTC)
From:plymouth
Date:July 10th, 2013 06:27 am (UTC)
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I understand stereotypes. And like really general stuff about dress. But mannerisms? Hobbies? None of that makes any sense.
From:funcrunch
Date:July 10th, 2013 06:48 am (UTC)
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I'll write more about this friendslocked, but I'm reading all kind of things about supposedly male mannerisms on FTM passing guides that are alternately head-scratching and frustrating.
From:plymouth
Date:July 10th, 2013 04:09 pm (UTC)
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Oh, yeah, it's totally a thing, just not one that makes sense to me.
From:funcrunch
Date:July 10th, 2013 04:12 pm (UTC)
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I'm curious but afraid to look at what MTF transitioning resources say about how women are supposed to behave and dress.
From:auros
Date:July 10th, 2013 09:58 pm (UTC)
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See, I can think of speech patterns, mannerisms, hobbies, etc, that are culturally tagged as masculine or feminine. Almost uniformly, they're things I find annoying, on either side -- the kind of stuff you see from overgrown fratboys, and Marina girls, and the like...
From:plymouth
Date:July 10th, 2013 10:22 pm (UTC)
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Culture has tagged working on cars as a masculine hobby and sewing as a feminine hobby. I think culture is full of shit there, but I don't think the hobbies themselves are annoying - I take part in both of them :)
From:auros
Date:July 10th, 2013 11:06 pm (UTC)
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I think it's possible that with the things I don't find annoying, my brain has simply stripped the gender tags off. I've met plenty of XYs who crochet, weave, etc, and XXs who are way more into cars and sports than I am. And of course I cook and do the dishes more than you do. And so on. Whereas with the kind of highly-gendered mannerisms I'm thinking of, which I find irritating (and don't want to be around people who have them), the gendered-ness is part of what I dislike about them.
From:plymouth
Date:July 11th, 2013 06:11 am (UTC)
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I know we have a fair number of friends who have done 23-and-me but even the ones who have have not divulged the status of their sex chromosomes to me. So that seems like a poor way to identify people.

I suppose I should get mine checked. But even if I do, sweet flying spaghetti monster, please never use them as my identity. Ever.
From:saizai
Date:July 10th, 2013 06:40 am (UTC)
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Yeah. I find it hard to judge gender by these questions.

Hobbies to me are not particularly gendered. Most clothes aren't either (except some that J doesn't wear), and speech in modern American English is not very gender differentiated.

So… yeah. I'm not really one to answer this; it just doesn't fit with how I perceive gender.
From:funcrunch
Date:July 10th, 2013 06:42 am (UTC)
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Is there any other question I could have asked about my gender presentation that you would have been able to answer with a response other than "other"? If not, that's instructive too.
From:saizai
Date:July 11th, 2013 02:59 am (UTC)
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Not sure tbh. Overall visual effect, maybe? For that it's mostly female, for the usual body reasons.

But mannerisms, etc… ehh, you're well within range for either binary gender.
(no subject) - (Anonymous)
From:funcrunch
Date:July 10th, 2013 02:46 pm (UTC)
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I'm sure you intended this as amusing but I find it rather rude. You've seen me wearing clothes in person and in photos plenty of times.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:July 10th, 2013 04:54 pm (UTC)
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Perhaps he meant that when he thinks of you his brain forgets the clothes?
From:(Anonymous)
Date:July 10th, 2013 05:16 pm (UTC)

This gender thing

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Why are you caring about this? Last year in a spate of interviews asking me about this stuff as I was looking for a family therapist, (got a great poly/biracial/caring one who will be opening an office in Berkeley/Oakland in September) I decided that my gender identity is Human and my sexual orientation is loving adult polyamorous human. I think that you are my gender. My girlfriend hates that I want a non-defined human category because the most important person in her developing life was a woman who was born with the wrong genitalia and wants to be seen as a woman. If I had had a penis I would have been on the AV team in Junior High and really I think the problem is with the assigning of roles not "what do I look like." There is also the question of male and female in what culture? Persian men can move their hips in ways straight white American males (and my girlfriend) can't, and men here would consider at risk of getting them bullied, and Persian women cannot move their bodies at all. I knew you when your body was different and I love the way you look in a shirt/pants and tie now. But really have fun, do what you like, don't stress, avoid evil people and enjoy that wonderful body and face of yours! luv you, your ex aunt-in-law Sally
From:funcrunch
Date:July 10th, 2013 09:22 pm (UTC)

Re: This gender thing

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Human gender, yes, that would be nice if the world would accept such a thing.
From:missionista
Date:July 10th, 2013 11:35 pm (UTC)
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Since I know you more on-line than in person, I don't think I can give good feedback about gender in your mannerisms and speech patterns. However, your style of dress strikes me as neutral.
From:elgecko
Date:July 11th, 2013 11:25 pm (UTC)
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I didn't have problems with the questions, as some others have commented they have, but I do think maybe the answer choices were a little tough to contend with. I'd have loved (but don't think LJ supports) a little slider to go 0-100 where the extreme of each gender typical-ness is at the ends. =)

So... where 0 is all-the-way-femme and 100 is all-the-way-butch (I flipped a coin to determine which goes where), and taking it as an average of the entire time I've known you:

Dress: 40
Mannerisms: 47
Speech: 45
Hobbies: 50

Hope that helps!

From:thomwatson
Date:July 13th, 2013 08:20 pm (UTC)

Explanations

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This was an interesting exercise, and overall it was difficult for me to assign you to a binary gender option for any of the categories. While clearly I'm not blind to gender, I don't know that it's something I'm continually or consciously analyzing, especially for people I already know. Interestingly, I'm realizing really only as I'm writing this, the use of "male" and "female" for the poll choices in some cases, rather than "masculine" or "feminine," say, made it maybe more intellectually difficult for me to decide, along with my sense that a range of choices (i.e., "mostly masculine," "more masculine," "neither more masculine or feminine," "more feminine" and "mostly feminine") might have made it perhaps even more easy to assign an option, though even there I think my answers to some would vary quite a bit over the time I've known you.

So, more detailed answers here:

Style of dress: When I first knew you, and was seeing you on a nearly daily basis for about a year and a half, I'd have said that your style of dress was fairly neutral, neither overtly masculine or feminine, fairly typical attire for a programmer/developer of any gender. For a period after that, though, when I saw you only socially, and usually in very specific social environments, e.g., concerts, I'd likely say that you dressed in a much more "feminine" fashion, i.e., in ways that specifically drew attention to your female curves, and with hairstyles more typically seen on women than men. Very recently, though, your style of address has clearly seemed to me to aspire to androgyny and/or a more masculine presentation. Your current hairstyle is harder to assign a category; its shortness, for some, might read as "masculine" or "male" but I know many women who wear their hair similarly short, so all I can honestly say is that it seems "less feminine" than before, but really falling in a neutral range that I wouldn't associate with either binary gender necessarily.

Mannerisms and speech patterns: Wow, this was tough. I think that perhaps I only assign a gender to mannerisms and speech patterns at very narrow ends of the scales, and for certain very stereotypical actions (e.g., I would read the deliberate breathiness of Marilyn Monroe's public persona as female, and that exaggerated sitting position with legs really wide apart as a stereotypically posturing (young) male stance), but for the most part I don't think I process a lot of people's mannerisms and speech patterns as anything but neutral, and I think you typically fall into that broad middle category for me. That could also be colored by my own experience as a gay male, where some of the mannerisms and speech patterns typically considered either male or female seem more blurred, and where my own childhood was spent being bewildered about what it meant to try to "act/walk/stand/throw more like a boy."

Hobbies and interests: Again, your hobbies and interests seem to me mostly within what I believe most people would consider neutral non-gender-specific activities.
From:funcrunch
Date:July 13th, 2013 11:54 pm (UTC)

Re: Explanations

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When I first knew you, and was seeing you on a nearly daily basis for about a year and a half, I'd have said that your style of dress was fairly neutral, neither overtly masculine or feminine, fairly typical attire for a programmer/developer of any gender. For a period after that, though, when I saw you only socially, and usually in very specific social environments, e.g., concerts, I'd likely say that you dressed in a much more "feminine" fashion, i.e., in ways that specifically drew attention to your female curves, and with hairstyles more typically seen on women than men.

Interesting - I think I was actually more likely to wear more feminine clothes during the time we worked together, as I was a lot heavier then and emphasizing my cleavage. Plus that's when I was doing all the color and highlighting. Here's a reminder from my birthday party in Feb 2007 ;-)

Julie and Thom
From:funcrunch
Date:July 14th, 2013 12:02 am (UTC)

Re: Explanations

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Another view of my changing appearance over the years in my Flickr set of birthday pictures.
From:elgecko
Date:August 13th, 2013 05:39 am (UTC)
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Is it possible to nick this poll for myself?
From:funcrunch
Date:August 13th, 2013 01:20 pm (UTC)
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Do you mean post the same poll to your own journal? Sure, of course!